Monday, August 27, 2012

Romance intersects law student loan debt

I just came across an ABA article entitled:

QUESTION OF THE WEEK

Has Student Loan Debt Impeded Your Romantic Relationships?



Even before I read other commentators' answers, I knew my answer was a big fat "yes."  Before I explain why, let me give you a flavor of the responses. Here's what one respondent wrote:

"Six years ago, when I was beginning my third year of law school, I was lamenting how I had put my romantic life on hold until after graduation and the bar exam. The fact that I knew I wasn’t going to be dating anyone for at least a year seemed incredibly cruel.

But it got worse. I really struggled with the bar exam and with finding well-paying work. Now it’s been five years since graduation and the combination of low income and high student loan debt have put my romantic life on hold for six years now. Six years!

Imagine meeting attractive women, but not being able to ask them out on dates, lest it turn into a relationship—simply because you know you can’t afford it. It’s really weighs heavy on the outlook for my entire life."

Now, I realize that law grads aren't the only ones whose grad programs and post-grad debt loads stress and limit their romantic lives. However, as a group, law grads do experience some significant obstacles.

  • Their grad programs are predictably and consistently demanding. 
  • The stress and time burden of law school often displaces the time and resources needed for romantic relationships.
  • The critical nature of their training sometimes bleeds over into their perception of the behaviors and motivations of themselves and others. The newly-forged abilities to confront and argue don't always stay in the cage, either. 
  • Many of them graduate with exceptional debt loads, not uncommonly between 120-150K. 
  • Many struggle to find any employment, adequately compensated employment, or employment within the law: sometimes for years or more after graduation.
  • The jobs that are in the law and adequately compensated are often extremely time-demanding and stressful; many romantic relationships are strained by these pressures.
Many of these motifs were evidenced in the responses.

Though most commentators addressed the tension of adding a large debt to the liabilities of a potential partner, my story addresses the side of the grad student him/herself.

I felt frustrated by how long I had to wait to be able to even job search after choosing to go to law school.  I decided to attend law school in October of 2007, and first became capable of advertising myself as a licensed attorney one month before 2012, over four full years later. (I took the LSAT in November 2007, applied in the spring of 2008, began law school in the fall of 2008, graduated spring of 2011, took the bar in July 2011, and took the attorney's oath in December shortly after learning I had passed the bar: that's about as fast as you can do the process). It is difficult to earn money during the summers or during grad school due to the course load and the need to complete externships. Bar prep takes three months of full-time work. Waiting on bar results takes a full four months. And in addition to the opportunity cost of earning income, the bar costs 2 grand, bar fees .5 grand, and bar prep 3 grand.  Graduating into a long-saturated legal market means the job prospects are lackluster.

For me, these ingredients combined to produce an indebted and stressed law grad. Yes, I had the security of knowing I could go home to Idaho if I needed to, but I had long since deliberately left behind the live-with-your-parents-at-28 approach, and had no interest in pursing a life in Idaho.  Yes, I was able to scrape together some meager partial employment sufficient to keep me afloat. Yes, a year later I was blessed with a fantastic and adequately compensated position. In the meantime, though, I floated from place to place to save on rent, lapsed medical insurance, used the internet in libraries and coffee shops, job searched until my list of information interviews bled my pen dry and, worst of all, feared the day I'd lack the ability to make my student loan payments.

For me, there's an intimate relationship between my self-esteem and my ability to pay my own bills. I have no children, and my mind and body are healthy and capable. I have three degrees (Biology and MPA too) and over 20 years of formal education. There was no place in my personal narrative for an individual in my position to fail to pay my own bills. Some debt is fine, (as a general principle home or education investments are rational) but defaulting is failure. Now, this view may be neither reasonable nor charitable, perhaps, but it was my view and my proximity to broke wore heavy.

During this period I dated a steady girlfriend for over a year. We were an excellent match and enjoyed each other very much. We communicated well, and she was supportive of the significant faith transition I was going through at the time. She could care less about my financial condition and was more than willing to have me live with her (at age 31, she'd been employed full-time for four years, was pursuing her master's degree online in the evenings, and had bought a home). An avowed gender egalitarian, it didn't bother me that the better financially-positioned partner was female and I male. However, there was still a hesitation I just couldn't shake: one that had nothing to do with her.

Then at the end of one very romantic night, she proposed marriage. There was no particular reason to say no: I loved her, we both wanted family, we were real with each other and we have similar religious, geographic, and socio-economic backgrounds: hell, we met on eHarmony for Allah's sake! [It doesn't hurt that we communicated well and both spoke each other's love languages (words of affirmation and physical touch), and that she's very attractive.]

But I couldn't say yes. To propose or agree to marriage, for me, required a foundation of financial self-confidence. Not necessarily funds, mind you: though it would have been tight, we'd probably have been okay on her salary until I found steady, higher-dollar employ. And it wasn't that I demand wealth: I've never been terribly interested in money outside eventually having enough to pay middle-class expenses. No, the bankrupt account was not our combined net, but instead my self-confidence: that integral part that refused to turn a blind eye to the ever-present bottom line. For me, I had to be confident I could pay my own bills before I could make an important life decision like marriage.

My partner didn't understand. To her, "love was her whole happiness" (thank you Bublé); why would a temporary spat of underemployment coupled with student loan debt matter more than that? Even after I explained what I was experiencing, she figured something else was the problem, and worried about what that else might be.

I tried. For months. I lingered locally, hoping for either a job or a change of confidence, but eventually I broadened the net of my job search. She was so accommodating, she was even willing to move to where I wanted. Eventually, she tactfully raised the question of marriage again. Long before she brought it up, though, I had already spent weeks agonizing about it.

I remember those days, soul-searching and sometimes crying in sadness or frustration during my runs along the riverbank. Something inexplicable smoldered within me: an anger at myself and the system perhaps, that I had spent so much money, time, hope, and opportunity cost for a credential that rewarded me so meagerly in the one area I really cared about: having a predictable source of income adequate for an above 20K/yr lifestyle. I don't know, maybe it was shallow: but this I do know, that inadequate employment/income was the primary cause of my marital hesitation.

I knew how much she wanted to marry me and I knew I wouldn't be ready until I had a few months of drinking from the healing waters of an income stream that I had earned. Plus, I felt I had to be mobile enough to interview in other areas, and I knew I couldn't afford interstate trips after seven straight years of school followed by seven straight months of under/unemployment. I wanted to lessen her pain and restore my confidence canister, so I broke up with her and launched a two-month programme of couch surfing, informational interviews, hundreds of job applications, and contract work in another state.

Now, nearly nine months later, I am two months into a fabulous job with a top-notch manager and a stellar work culture. My girlfriend moved on long ago. I am just now seeing the light: I feel I'll be ready to open myself to a potentially marital romantic relationship at some point in the next month or two.

FWIW, that is how this law grad's student loan debt impeded his romantic relationships.

See also:

Call Me Maybe When Your School Loan Is Paid In Full

Is Law School Loan Debt Ruining Your Love Life?



Wednesday, June 20, 2012

Breaking the Patriarchal Grip PUBLISHED

My new book, Breaking the Patriarchal Grip: an argument for governance equality through sacred disobedience is now available. Read, download, share, and comment! (breakingthepatriarchalgrip.blogspot.com)

Saturday, June 16, 2012

Facebook = cocaine


Social
medium
Substance
Talking in person
Breakfast cereal
Phone call
Pasta
Email
Sandwich
Snail mail
Apples from
the tree
Skype
Steak dinner
Blogging
Pizza
Texting
Beer
Instant messaging
Wine
Twitter
Marijuana
Google+
Vicodin
Facebook
Cocaine

Tuesday, May 8, 2012

Activist Résumé, plus foreshadowing my upcoming booklet on Mormon feminist activism!

I thought I'd include links to my presentations, media appearances, etc. from the last few years.

Also, get excited: I should be coming out with a booklet on Mormon feminist activism in a month or two! Contact me if you'd like to volunteer as part of the closed-circuit editing phase. I'm so earnest about writing it- work and life feels a distraction right now!


  1. Shared an updated version of my book, Homosexuality: A Straight BYU Student's Perspective (sold out at Benchmark Books, Sam Weller's Bookstore, and BYU Bookstore)
  1. Spoke at Affirmation's April post-general-conference meeting in SLC
  1. Delivered a pro same-sex marriage address at the conservative academic conference, Strengthening the Family
  1. Presented Why Mormonism Can Abide Gay Marriage at the Sunstone symposium
  2. Wrote two analyses of church discipline- Church Discipline: Unveiled and Differences between "Handbook 1: Stake Presidents and Bishops 2010" and 'Handbook 2: Administering the Church"
  3. Authored a guest post, Can Mormonism Make a Place for Same-Sex Marriage? Guest Blogger Brad Carmack Says Yes, on Jana Reiss's Flunking Sainthood blog 
  4. Was featured on the cover of Qsaltlake
  1. Was profiled by Utah Common Values
  1. Delivered the keynote at the annual Affirmation banquet (held in 2011 in Cleveland and the Kirtland temple)
  1. Advocated involvement in nonprofit groups as part of a panel on the Mormon Channel
  1. Interviewed with J. Seth Anderson on Qtalk Arizona about my book
  1. Interviewed with Eric Ethington on PRIDEinUtah about my book
  1. Manned the PFLAG booth at the SLC Pride Parade, summer 2011
  1. Spoke on Sunstone panel re: LDS life in the "Borderlands," also in Sunstone Magazine article (page 76)
  1. Published an op-ed in the Salt Lake Tribune, Time for same-sex LDS marriages
  1. Was highlighted in the Advocate: Mormon Lawyer: Church Should Embrace Marriage Equality
  1. Guest posted Mormonism Beyond the Gender Binary on Feminist Mormon Housewives
  1. Was written about in the Salt Lake Tribune in an article entitled Mormon Pragmatism
  1. Wrote Reflections of a Mormon feminist: the role of women and men in and out of the church on Feminist Mormon Housewives
  1. Was discussed in The L Magazine: A Change of Heart on Gay Marriage From a Mormon Former Anti-Gay Rights Campaigner
  1. Was targeted in a same-sex reproduction article by Red Mass Group: Mormonism Beyond the Gender Binary
  1. Spoke about sexual orientation science at the opening event for PFLAG Utah County, summer 2011
  1. Shared a video activism series at my YouTube channel
  1. Presented Mormonism Beyond the Gender Binary at the Mormon Transhumanist Association Conference

Thursday, May 3, 2012

LDS stance on homosexuality: an obstacle to converting investigators

I'm so emotional right now! I just checked the email associated with my book (Homosexuality: A Straight BYU Student's Perspective) that I hardly ever check, and received the following email from an INVESTIGATOR. It made me tear up, and I'm not much of a weeper. "If only our LDS community and leadership would see these and change for the better" cries and pleads my soul!!

"Hello,

My name is ___ ____. I am 24 years old and currently pursuing a doctorate in _____ at _____. Recently, I had the pleasure of viewing some of the videos on your YouTube channel that discuss Mormon views on homosexuality and same sex marriage. Honestly I could not have come across them at a better time. For several weeks I have prayerfully and earnestly been considering joining the LDS church. I find the underlying theology (or what I can gather of it) very compelling, and most of the values upheld by the church mesh very well with my own. However, one area in which there is no overlap whatsoever is the issue of homosexuality and the legal rights of the LGBT community. I believe that sexual preference is genetically and biologically determined, therefore it must be part of God's plan. Furthermore, I think that gay men and women can live rich, fulfilling lives that are well within the ordinances set by God and can raise loving families.

I know that currently the church's stance on homosexuality and same sex marriage is that it violates God's laws and will not be tolerated, and I realize my own views are in stark contrast to that. However, one of the aspects of the LDS church that I absolutely love is the fact that it has evolved over the years. At one point polygamy and race discrimination were common practices by its members. My most sincere hope is that things will continue along the same path, and that someday anti-homosexuality sentiment and policy will be things of the past as well.

My question is this: how will I be received by the LDS community as a well meaning and sincere person who wants to join the church, but also supports gay marriage? Additionally, are there other Mormons who believe as I do and have they encountered problems in the church? Lastly, are you yourself hopeful (and reasonably confident?) that LDS views on homosexuality will change?

Thank you so much for your time and I hope to get a response from you soon! :) This issue has weighed really heavily on my mind. Next week I'm going to meet with some missionaries to discuss the church and I will be attending a class on the Book of Mormon as well. Any knowledge or perspectives you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards,

____ _____"

Homosexuality: A thoughtful discussion between two agreeable but disagreeing Mormons

A thoughtful Mormon responded to my recent op-ed advocating an LDS embrace of same-sex marriage. The following is our dialogue, for those who are interested.

"Dear Brad,

I read your opinion piece in the SL Tribune: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/53825333-82/marriage-sex-gay-church.html.csp#disqus_thread

It is clear to me that the spirit and intention of your article and efforts on behalf of the LDS-gay community are love and compassion.
> Thanks for so recognizing. <

I share in your desire to show compassion to a group that is often shunned, bullied, and mistreated.
> I can tell already we have a lot of common ground. <

The way so many people, who profess to be disciples of Christ, mistreat others who ‘sin differently than themselves’ is sad and filled with hypocrisy. I grew up in San Francisco and was exposed to every type of diversity imaginable. I have always been friends with people of all walks of life and tried to be a loving Christian in my interactions with all people.
> That's cool. <

I’ve never been perfect, but I have never bullied, shunned, or been unkind to anyone.

My profession is mental health and marriage/family relationships.
> Awesome <

As an active Latter-day Saint, I am not a ‘typical Mormon’. Depending on the topic and context, I could be considered moderate, liberal, or conservative. Personally, I don’t like any labels because there is not one that is all-inclusive and would adequately portray me and my perspectives.

With that very brief background, I want to share with you several concerns that I have with the homosexual movement and why it would never make sense for the LDS Church to sanction homosexuality and same-sex marriage. This email is not written in the spirit of contention or malice. It is written in brotherly love and a desire for mutual understanding.
> I'm open <

I am not intending to refute every tenet of your article or anything like that. I am simply giving you my perspective on this 'hot button' issue with the hope to show you why many fellow Latter-day Saints disagree with your underlying premises.
> Fair enough. I affirm your perspective. To the extent that you're inviting a dialogue, I will answer some of your arguments below in brief, but please note that I have addressed most of your points in greater depth in my book, Homosexuality: A Straight BYU Student's Perspective, which you can download for free (http://www.scribd.com/doc/44716106/Homosexuality-a-Straight-BYU-Student-27s-Perspective-Draft-2h). Chapter 5 is especially relevant to our discussion here. <

Doctrinally, the acceptance of homosexuality and ‘gay marriage’ completely undermines the core of LDS theology.

The most important doctrine of the church is the Atonement of Jesus Christ. The next most important doctrine is Agency and with Agency comes Accountability.
> I agree at least that these doctrines are significant. I include a detailed discussion on Atonement, Agency, and Accountability in the context of homosexuality in my book (http://www.scribd.com/doc/44716106/Homosexuality-a-Straight-BYU-Student-27s-Perspective-Draft-2h), chapter 3. <

Religious history (both canonized and historical) has been clear about sexual sin. Sex outside of marriage has always been considered sin. In the history of humankind, marriage has never included same-sex partners, among the covenant people. The only known form of marriage among God’s covenant people, starting with Adam and Eve, is man-woman marriage. ‘Neither the man without the woman, nor the woman without the man, in the Lord.’ The only exception being plural marriage, but even that has always been man-woman, multiplied.
> Even if you're correct about the history, that tradition does not preclude the possibility of same-sex marriage anymore than a 2-person marriage tradition precluded plural marriage. God can always change what is and is not sin, and has done so numerous times through history, including recent history. <

Homosexual sex acts have always been a sin for at least two reasons: 1) God has never sanctioned ‘gay marriage’, therefore 100% of those who have had homosexual sex have done so out of wedlock, which is a sin. 2) Sodomy, the preferred sexual act of homosexual men, has been labeled a sin-among many other sexual perversions. So, even if society allowed ‘gay marriage’, the sexual act would still be sin. I'm being simplistic here, but God really has established homosexual sex as sin throughout the history of religion.
> That assertion is overbroad, as there is historical evidence for permission of homosexual acts in several religious traditions. Even within an LDS or LDS canonical analysis, there is significant and well-founded debate on the origins, consistency, and application of the per se sinful tag you associate with homosexual acts (see chapter 5 of my book for greater depth on this score, especially the scripture section). (http://www.scribd.com/doc/44716106/Homosexuality-a-Straight-BYU-Student-27s-Perspective-Draft-2h) Finally, I would ask whether lesbian sex is proscribed under your construction of sexual morality. Thus far you have focused on the sexual act between men- would you proscribe sexual/physical intimacy between women, and if so where would you draw the line and what's your doctrinal basis for doing so? What does lesbian sex even look like? <

Let me go back to how homosexuality undermines core LDS theology. Society wants all of us to re-label homosexual behavior as acceptable and not sinful.
> Again, the assertion is overly broad. There exists no universal directive from "society" (rather, societal messages are diverse), and many of the more moderate elements have softer requests (e.g. accepting marital homosexual behavior, but not all homosexual behavior). Also, I think even you would sanction some homosexual behavior, such as emotional intimacy between two lesbian women. As with heterosexuality and heterosexual orientation, homosexuality and homosexual orientation covers a broad spectrum of physical, spiritual, emotional, sexual, and romantic attractions and relationships that defy a reduction to sexual acts. <

Why? Because they want us all to embrace the ‘fact’ that they were ‘born this way’. In other words, if biology dictates it, then it can’t be wrong.
>This proposition mischaracterizes the reasoning of many who affirm same-sex marriage. Their ethical justification centers on equality and/or utilitarian considerations, and does not succeed or fail as a necessary consequence of biological determinism. That being said, homosexual orientation does exist, and homosexuals usually are, quite literally, born that way. In that limited sense your assertion is accurate- there can be nothing immoral about unchosen homosexual orientation. <

Therefore, biology determines ‘who I am’ and there is nothing I can do about it. This deterministic stance is antithetical to the core LDS doctrine of Agency. If I believe that biology determines 'who I am', then I should embrace it and so should society and the church. Therefore, if my biology is determining my behavior, there should not be any negative consequences. Not having a choice and therefore not having consequences takes away Accountability.
> This reasoning is overly simplistic, and caricatures the claims of many marriage equality advocates. There is a difference between embracing "it" (a sexual identity) and "it" (a same-sex relationship). None of us consciously chooses our beginning anatomy- our height, for instance, is not something we have much control over. You're not choosing to replicate DNA right now, but nonetheless your cells are doing it, and that on a grand scale, every moment of every day. A homosexual orientation is quite similar in its biological/non-chosen nature.
Many reasonable same-sex marriage advocates, myself included, don't adopt a biological determinism justification. What we do adopt is an acknowledgement of the reality that a homosexual orientation usually includes feelings of romantic, emotional, sexual, and spiritual attraction to a subset of members of one sex, much as heterosexual orientation does. We also observe that a loving, consensual, romantic/emotional/sexual relationship between two people can be very positive and healthy, and should be an available choice to adult homosexual individuals. The moral consequences of these couplings are more positive and significant than, say, a nonconsensual coupling between an adult and a shoe or an adult and a prepubescent child (two examples that you reference subsequently). The moral consequences are quite similar, in fact, to those we witness flowing from heterosexual couplings such as your own. I would anticipate that you would recognize that equivalence if you have unbiased experience working with same-sex couples as part of your marriage work. The members of a same-sex couple are accountable for the consequences of that relationship, as are straight couples. Thus the option of same-sex marriage expands agency, rather than limits accountability. <

So, if I must be determined by my biology (no agency) and I should accept the resulting behavior of my biological drives and urges (no true accountability), then my biology is also determining that this behavior is not sin. If biology and society determine that there is not sin, there is no need for a God and for an Atonement (the core doctrine of our church).

After the Atonement, Agency and Accountability, the next most important LDS doctrine is Eternal Marriage between a man and a woman.
> What is the basis for the doctrinal hierarchy you posit? <

D&C 131-132 make it very clear how essential this doctrine is throughout eternity.
> What is not clear, however, is how to discern between a man and a woman. This common-sense proposition, it turns out, is anything but. See my "Mormonism Beyond the Gender Binary" article (http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/?p=7905) and presentation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocUHzmK6IjU). The doctrine, even if vital, turns out to be wholly inapplicable because it is based on an unsupported assumption. I'll say it again. Mormonism's gender binary, based on a doctrine of spiritual sex, is inapplicable in the waking world because it necessarily relies on an unwarranted assumption that a spattering of photons of hitting our retinas (when our brains tell us, "hey that's a boy" or "that's a girl') proves an individual's spiritual sex. Check out the video presentation. <

‘Gay marriage’ cannot work in light of this fundamental doctrine and the natural and eternal result of having children-which is only possible (on earth and in the eternities) with a man and a woman.
> Your assertion is factually inaccurate. It is also somewhat ironic to weight biology so heavily here when you treated it so dismissively above in your Agency discussion. I have all the genes needed in my own cheek swab to manufacture a human egg. Already a mouse has been procreated with two and only two biological parents- two male mice. Human reproduction is entirely feasible absent both sexes (for greater depth see my narrated powerpoint presentation, Why Mormonism Can Abide Gay Marriage - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1jDUcBKml0). I anticipate that you would affirm the postgender future that gives us more reproductive choice, since you have expressed allegiance earlier to the principle of Agency. In addition, your reasoning would also potentially exclude infertile man-woman couples based on their inability to have children on earth. Last, what is your basis for asserting that two women can't have children in the eternities, or indeed that we have anything besides speculation on the subject of the mechanics of spiritual procreation? <

There is a lot more that I could say, but I can only come to two conclusions, if an active Latter-day Saint believes homosexuality should be embraced along with ‘gay marriage’. 1) This LDS person does not have a clear understanding of core LDS doctrine and theology, or, 2) This person has not gained a converted acceptance of the core LDS doctrine and theology.
> A third possibility is that there are very good reasons for an LDS person with a converted acceptance to core LDS doctrine and theology to simply disagree with your interpretation and application of said doctrine. I hope you are not arrogant enough to claim that you are the final arbiter of LDS doctrine, or that yours is the only clear understanding. <

The entire Plan of Salvation is undermined by homosexuality.
> I wholly disagree, for reasons I've explained more fully in "Why Mormonism Can Abide Gay Marriage - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1jDUcBKml0). <

That is why I respectfully and lovingly disagree with your opinion piece.
> I affirm your opinion, and appreciate your loving and respectful presentment. <

You come across as a great man with a lot of good to offer and I appreciate that. But, I ask you to truly study the doctrine and then decide what you are going to spend your time promoting.
> I'm open to altering my activities and my doctrinal interpretations. I'll admit though that I haven't found your arguments thus far very persuasive. <

If one of my sons ever came to me and said, “Dad, I’m gay.” I would continue to love them with all my heart. And I would also lovingly make it clear the act of homosexuality is a sin that truly can be overcome through the Atonement of Christ. Now, it would probably take therapy and possibly an acceptance that the tendencies would not completely go away in this life. But, I truly believe Christ when He says that 'His grace is sufficient'. I would never stop working to help my son understand that he has the agency to choose not to give in and act upon these tendencies, regardless if they are something he felt he was born with. Any other response from me, as a converted Latter-day Saint, would not be authentic and honest as one who embraces core LDS doctrine.
> I affirm your response to your son and the authenticity of your embrace of your understanding of core LDS doctrine. However, if you'll permit an evaluation, it could be seen as cruel and unnecessary to forbid an individual from forming romantic relationships. Can you imagine teaching your straight son that falling in love with and marrying a woman is sinfully giving in to a "tendency?" That the mysterious, wonderful, noble realities of human romantic and sexual love are evil because of the anatomy of your partner? Can you imagine the needless sorrow if we were tomorrow informed that heterosexuality is a sin? Would you be willing to describe your relationship with your wife as sin if tomorrow God truly reveals through President Monson that heterosexual behavior is a sinful? <

Furthermore, it’s essential to note that I have read the research and there are some who do seem to be ‘born with’ sexual attraction to the same gender.
> Some? If you've read the research, then shouldn't you conclude that at least almost all homosexually oriented persons are, as you describe, "born with" their orientation? <

However, there are also some who are ‘born with’ sexual attraction to their siblings, parents, prepubescent children, animals, and in other cases-objects such as manequins, shoes, and so forth. The problem with all of these sexual attraction deviations is our very bodies demonstrate what is sexually natural. A man and a woman naturally go together sexually.
> You are making a version of the naturalist argument Robert George posited in his article, "What is Marriage?" I made a (successful in my view) thorough excoriation of his reasoning at an academic pro-family conference in Provo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfYqQe-VnHU). Body-based naturalist claims are rife with inconsistencies- watch my presentation for the reasons why. <

So, from a biological perspective, if we accept homosexuality as another form of 'natural sexuality', we must accept everything else to remain truly consistent. If we do not draw a firm line with biology, then we cannot draw any line at all.
> Nope. There are, in fact, rather easy lines to draw that maintain consistency. Those lines are "adult human" and "consent." These lines include same and opposite sex couples but exclude the mannequins and animals you are concerned about. <

Any one of these people who have other sexual deviations from heterosexuality could use all the same arguments as homosexuals are using. “I am born this way.” “This is who I am.” “You and I must accept it and you must make sure I’m allowed to act on it because this is who I am.”

Finally, in my professional experience of working with families, the qualitative and quantitative research findings are undeniable. A child who is raised in a loving home with a mother and a father, (preferably their biological parents) are MUCH better off in every category than another child raised in different circumstances.
> This assertion is an absolute non sequitur. Your assertion targets a particular circumstance (same-sex households), and there are painfully few studies where that demographic was compared to others, such as the biological parent category you baseline. The studies that do exist conclude that very little about the number of genders in the parenting couple is important, though on some measures the children of lesbian parents "turn out" better than their counterparts in opposite-sex families. <

Additionally, these children overwhelming make the most postive contributions to society. Supporting anything other than marriage between a man and a woman, opens the door for families to continue to be redefined, opening a ‘can of worms’ to what society accepts as an appropriate family for a child to be raised in. Studies (and common sense) clearly equate deviation from traditional family with the demise of society.
> You'll forgive me from pointing out the delicious irony in your reasoning. "Supporting anything other than marriage between a man and a woman opens the doors to a slippery slope of redefining what society accepts as an appropriate family to be raised in. Studies clearly equate deviation from traditional family with the demise of society. We are then well justified in opposing Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and those damn polygamous Mormons." Your reasoning could have been lifted straight from an anti-polygamy tract in the late nineteenth century. Wouldn't it make sense, instead, for Mormons to show a little more tolerance for alternate marriage forms that they personally disagree with? Also, I am definitely going to call you on your general claim that studies equate not-traditional family structures with the demise of society. What studies? What common sense? What is the demise of society, and wouldn't that degeneration depend on the specifics of a particular "deviation?" I'd prefer the titles and authors, at least, of the studies you reference. <

So, from a core LDS doctrinal perspective, a biological perspective, and sociological perspective I cannot, in good conscience, support the acceptance or promotion of homosexual behavior and same-sex marriage.
> And perhaps, after reviewing my presentations, book, videos, and responses here, your opinion has not changed. However, yours is no the only biological, sociological, or core LDS doctrinal, perspective. I assert further that yours is by no means necessarily the best supported one. <

Once again, I love all of my friends who proclaim themselves to be homosexual.
> Is there a reason you included the "proclaim themselves" phrase? I love all my friends who proclaim themselves to be heterosexual. Doesn't that sound a little off to you? Why not assume they're telling the truth and instead say you love your homosexual friends? Homosexuals exist, they really do. <

However, as a Latter-day Saint, and as a family relationship professional, and as one who wants our children to grow up in the best situation possible, I am committed to standing up for traditional marriage and natural sexual relations being saved for marriage.
> Sexual relations between two gay persons of the same gender are natural, and there are lower-hanging fruits you could target if you're interested in child welfare (such as teaching parents conflict resolution skills, early detection of drug and child abuse, economic stability for families, divorce, etc.). Very few, if any, of your pro-family values would be sacrificed by affirming gay marriage. When marriage is more universally available and expected (which is the outcome when gay marriage is accepted, since it makes a healthy marriage more available to gay persons who face risky mixed-orientation marriages or celibacy otherwise), it is strengthened. My embrace of gay marriage DERIVES from, rather than contradicts, my family advocacy. <

You seem to be a great person, full of love and compassion, and a desire to do good. I hope you decide to use your talents to promote things that will actually help society, instead of what I’m seeing in the underlying premises of your article.

Please know that this email is written in love and concern and a desire to truly be helpful.
> I believe it is. You strike me as well-informed, thoughtful, and caring. My position is doubtlessly flawed, and I appreciate your desire to be helpful. <

I wish you all the best in your life.
> Thank you.

Sincerely,
"

Tuesday, April 10, 2012

Current Facebook Groups

A snapshot from 10 April 2012:

  Mormon Stories Young Single Adults Support Group
  Mormon Transhumanist Association
  Phoenix Region - Mormon Stories Support Community
    Feminist Mormon Housewives Society
    Mormon Stories Podcast Community
    Affirmation: Gay and Lesbian Mormons
    LGBTQ, Family and Allies - Mormon Stories Support Community
    MoHo
Mormon Expression VIP Lounge
    MO 2.0
   Orange County, CA - Mormon Stories Support Community
    Reform Mormons
    ALL SAINTS
    A Prophetic People
    Mormon Democrats
    Washington Mormons for Marriage
    2011 BYU Law
    L.A. Region - Mormon Stories Support Community
    Maryland Mormons for Marriage
    San Diego - Mormon Stories Support Community
    USGA - Understanding Same-Gender Attraction
    DISCepticons - Phoenix Area Ultimate Frisbee Pickup
    Empathy First Dinner Groups
    Ultimate Sunday Nights (Tempe)
    MoHo Social   
Society for Humanistic Mormonism
    Students for the Family - Volunteers!
    Feminist Mormon Housewives
    Latter-day Seekers
    PFLAG Utah County
    For the Strength of Families
    Mormon Expression Lunch Club
    Society for Universal Immortalism
    BYU Date Club
    USGA
    Kaplan PMBR Student Reps
    CorInvictus.com - Happy. Gay. Mormons.
    teleXLR
      Brothers of Prometheus: Gay and Bi Men Overcoming Religious Wounding
    BYU / UVU - Mormon Stories Support Community
    BYU MPA 2009
   Affirmation Utah County Chapter
    BYU Jail Outreach
    BYU MPA at the Romney Institute
    California Sacramento Mission
    Communities for Decency (BYU Chapter)
    FAIR: Defending Mormonism
    Falafel and Philosophy Club
    FOOOOOD
    Help Prevent Suicide
    International Law Students Association (Official Group)
    Invictus Pilgrim Book Club
    KONY 2012
    MorMenLikeMe
   Mormon Liberals
    Mormon Missionary Gay Stories
    Reception
    South Provo Events
    Spirituality After Mormonism
    The Provo Peace Forum
    Understanding LDS Homosexuality
    Wildly Speculative (Feminist) Mormon Theology

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